Official Caddying Story: Michael Bapis

Michael N. Bapis, Managing Director with Vios Advisors at Rockefeller Capital Management, brings over 25 years of wealth management and private banking experience to the practice. Michael is dedicated to assisting clients and families, institutions and professional athletes and entertainers by providing knowledgeable insight and highly personalized client service. In utilizing global asset allocation concepts and tactical investment strategies, Michael works with clients and families to create financial portfolios that align with long-term goals and optimize their wealth.

Michael began his career at Morgan Stanley in 1998, where he spent time in various departments learning a wide array of skills and knowledge within the financial services industry. A year later in 1999, Michael became a financial advisor. During this time, he was promoted to a Senior Vice President, Wealth Advisor and honored as a member of the prestigious Chairman’s Club — a group that highlights the top 150 advisors in the firm.

Michael is considered a thought leader in the financial services industry, having regularly appeared on CNBC’s Trading Nation and Worldwide Exchange, TD Ameritrade, Bloomberg TV and Yahoo Finance as well as quoted in CNNmoney.com, CNBC.com, Reuters, Financial Planning and Investment News. Michael has also been named to the Barron’s Top 1,200 Advisor List from 2014-2018, and 2020-2023, Forbes Best-In-State Wealth Advisors List from 2017-2020, and 2022 and Financial Times RIA in 2017.

Michael’s passion for philanthropy has had a tremendous impact on both his professional and personal life. As former Chairman of The Ronald McDonald House of New York Greek Division, Michael has led successful fundraising efforts that have raised thousands of dollars in support of the organization. He was also named as the 2019 Honoree for the annual Tuesday’s Children Plandome Benefit, an award that recognizes a renowned individual in the community for their passion for volunteerism. Michael also wears myriad hats on local Long Island organizations and the Greek Community, including Leadership 100, Hellenic Hearts, Archangel Michael Church, HANAC and The Hellenic Initiative.

Michael earned both his B.A. degree and his MBA from The University of Utah in 1996 and 2004. Michael was a member of the golf team during his undergraduate career. In addition, Michael played basketball overseas at the American College of Greece from 1995-1996.

The following transcript is AI-generated and has undergone only minor edits. Please refer to the video recording for direct quotes.

Kai Sato (00:01.292)

Welcome to Caddyshack, the corner office where we recognize the most accomplished people who once caddied and grow the game by assisting those following their path. I'm your host, Kai Sato. Today, I'm lucky to be joined by my dear friend, Michael Bapus. Thanks for taking some time.

Michael Bapis (00:16.575)

Thanks, Kai. Great to see you. Great to be on the show, and I'm really looking forward to rapping about the game of golf.

Kai Sato (00:23.328)

Always, always fun being with you. Got to get play a little golf with you last month when you hosted us out in New York. Before we dive in on some of your looping experiences and the catting stuff, you mind just telling our listeners about you, your career, what you do and your kind of path to the corner office, if you will.

Michael Bapis (00:41.343)

Yeah, great. I played golf in college at University of Utah. Then right out of college, I went and worked for the Jim Flick golf schools at Desert Mountain. Before that, I was working for the summers with him. while I was doing that, we'll talk about that a little later, but while I was doing that, I ended up getting an internship at Morgan Stanley in New York. I grew up in Utah. I lived in Utah. So I went from Phoenix out to New York.

My internship was just working on every desk that was at Morgan Stanley from the fixed income trading to the equities to research. And so I spent nine months doing that. And then it sort of evolved into getting into sales. as you know, and as you are a people person, so am I. A lot of what gets us by in life is connecting with people, personalities. so I sort of understood that that's probably where I would want to go.

I had an uncle in the business and my father was also in the business. A little bit different, but that's kind how I got going. Spent 10 years at Morgan Stanley when the world blew up in 2008. Decided to start our own firm. Started our own firm for 10 years and then in 2018, our CEO, Greg Fleming, came to

I had a chance to reconnect with him and a guy named Chris Randazzo, who was our president at the time, and they said, look, Viking is buying Rockefeller and we want you to come and help us build it out and be the first team to start the process. So we went from a single family office to a multifamily office. We advise athletes and entertainers as well as high net worth people. Seven and half years later, our firm's massively. We have close to 200 teams now and it's been...

It's been a hell of a run. It's a great place to be. I kind of, you know, if you look back, there's so many stories that help you learn and help you. But I think just going back to, you know, even Caddy and connecting with the person you're Caddy and connecting with the person on the other side, you're to spend four and a half, five hours with these people. You as well enjoy it and have them enjoy it. you know, that's how I got in the business. That's I'm successful at the business is just that whole people connection and, you know.

Michael Bapis (03:04.595)

working together with empathy, humor, anything that helps people connect. And I think that's where I really learned from a young age about all of that.

Kai Sato (03:17.984)

Well said, and I'm going to force you to talk about a lot of things outside of just golf, but your hoops career and your passion there. But like you said, it's all connected. It's all the same stuff and making sure that you're doing right by people and hopefully living a life with some purpose. speaking to the caddy stuff, where did you first caddy and how old were you when you first threw a bag over your shoulder?

Michael Bapis (03:31.881)

Right. Right.

Michael Bapis (03:41.365)

I was trying to remember that when we first started talking. I was probably, I mean, first started caddying two places. There was a public course that my parents used to drop me off at. Give me 10 bucks and say, go hit some balls and figure it out. And so I started connecting with the pro. It's place called Glendale out in West Salt Lake. And also at the Salt Lake Country Club. I had grown up there. That's probably my real first.

good experience caddying. There was an older group of guys that all very successful in their own rights. That I just, when I was at the range, I was just hitting balls and they said, why don't you come out with us? And I said, okay. So I started, it was more of a, they were older, so they had carts at that time. So it was more of a four caddy type of thing. you know, I'm 11, 12 years old, just learning from these guys, not only about golf, but business and what they made successful.

what was humorous to them. And I give them a lot of credit. They, back, they looked out for me. And one of them was a former Salt Lake City police officer, retired. And it never failed. He would always have some young, beautiful girl with him to go out and walk the course with him. I'm a 11, 12 year old kid trying to...

break the traps and sling the bag and run around with these guys. And there's a lady over here just following us around in some crazy outfit. And I was just looking around thinking to myself, wow, is this what this really is? So it was really funny. But I'll never forget some of these times. And then as I grew older, I caddied everywhere. I actually

for some guys that were trying to make the tour. The first one was a guy, Dave DeSantis. He played at BYU. I could be wrong, but I think they won the national championship in like 82. It was like him. was Mike Reed. There was four guys that made the tour from that team. So one time I remember

Michael Bapis (06:09.629)

We, I was counting for him. He was qualified for the U S open, U S open qualifier, in Salt Lake, a place called solid country club. So I, I had grown up there. I do the greens, all that. And so he started playing well. And I just remember one time, I think it was the, it was the ninth hole there. I went to rake the trap after he hit it, he hit it tight, you know, two feet out of the trap and I went to rake it and I had the bag on me.

And then I ended up falling back into the trap. So I land on my ass, the clubs came down on me, a couple of clubs came out, the bag was like, it was like a yard sale. And he just looked at me, goes, are you okay? Do you mind if I hit my pot? I'm yeah, I'm good, I'm good. Sorry about that. So.

Kai Sato (06:53.889)

Yeah

Kai Sato (06:57.998)

How did you even start when you going back to this kind of original group of guys you were young, mostly for cadding but still, where do you stand what are you supposed to do you know how do you even get into position did they take you through that did they expect you to figure it out. Were you just too focused on the chick walking around in the skimpy outfits.

Michael Bapis (07:02.121)

Yeah.

Michael Bapis (07:11.999)

That's a great point. Yeah, I was, but I actually learned how to caddy as well alongside of it. But yeah, they told me where to stand, know, always stand behind, never go in front, rake the trap, you know, how to rake a trap. And I look back, I think they were just, they were so thankful for the game of golf that they just sort of wanted to pass that on to me. How to wipe a ball, you know, at one time I didn't wipe the ball well enough.

And the guy's like, he looks at the ball, there was a little grass stain or mud or whatever on it, and he throws me the ball. He goes, if I wanted this ball to look like this, I would have done it myself. He goes, you never give a ball back to a guy without it being perfectly clean. And to this day, I laugh about it because when I, now that I'm, I'm at golf courses with caddies and playing in these events, I still think about that like.

Kai Sato (07:59.054)

Okay.

Michael Bapis (08:09.033)

this guy gave me the ball but it's dirty. I'm like, dude, clean the ball. You we always have bad to with our candies as you know, and as do you, but it's something that to this day is a pet peeve of mine and I watch for it every time.

Kai Sato (08:21.992)

Absolutely, I think we all do. all we all notice if you it's like is the towel wet enough? What's your technique? Are you doing the two hand kind of scrubbing it out there? Have you figured out how to do it with one? I mean, there's there's a lot that goes into it.

Michael Bapis (08:26.069)

Right, Right. Yeah, exactly. I don't, I really don't think you can do it one handed and do a good job. I think you to use both hands.

Kai Sato (08:39.246)

Well, it looks like we might need to launch some type of competition. You might find some real athletes out there, Bappy. So other than, what's that? Oh, see, that's a huge method of itself, right? Because throwing to the caddy, but then when you're the caddy throwing it back and trying to assess what your guy is like and whether or not he can handle it. Are you throwing howitzers? Are you not? mean, when you get in sync with somebody, you really know what they're doing.

Michael Bapis (08:43.061)

Right, right. And it's always fun. It's always fun throwing the ball to the caddy. I love that.

Michael Bapis (08:58.152)

Right. Yep. Can this guy catch that ball or not? Is I going to hit him right in the tooth?

Michael Bapis (09:07.157)

All

Kai Sato (09:07.328)

You'll hear a lot about him. But one of the guys I learned a ton from his New York Mike, one of the best caddies you'll ever find an absolute staple Hall of Fame caddy at Beller Country Club and just one of the greatest, highest integrity humans I know. But his technique is flawless. Right. He's up there. It doesn't matter if it's your ball, his player. He's wiping any ball down, making sure everyone's set. Right. It's team game. And then he has this. He was a heck of a basketball player coming up actually out near you in New York.

Michael Bapis (09:26.869)

Right. Exactly.

Kai Sato (09:34.626)

And he has this kind of backhanded flip where he always leads the guy. And I've totally stolen that from him. It seems to be the most consistent. I think because you're not flipping it, people don't get spooked too. It's just kind of a little bit, you know, so these little things that you certainly pick up and you absolutely notice.

Michael Bapis (09:42.825)

Yeah, just like that.

Yeah.

Michael Bapis (09:53.055)

So true. And sometimes you throw it to the guy and the guy panics to catch it. I'm like, okay, this guy is not an athlete. I don't know what he's been doing his whole life, but he can't even catch a freaking golf ball.

Kai Sato (10:00.172)

Hehehehehe

I've been there where you're a little nervous on the toss. You're like, all right, like, where am I? I've definitely shorted them. I've longed them. Sometimes, you know, you had a big night before. You know, all that type of stuff. It's it.

Michael Bapis (10:06.837)

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yep.

Michael Bapis (10:14.183)

And if you're in competition, you're worried that, you know, they drop it in the ball and they drop it in the ball rolls. And they're like, are you trying to read the line here? What are we doing? You know, the guy just can't catch.

Kai Sato (10:17.492)

You lose the ball.

Kai Sato (10:25.74)

Now these are the nuances, but you probably touched on the most important thing that we find in catting, but especially life is just people who are not your family that see something in you, believe in you, just want to pass their love or passion of a game, but just some of the things that they've learned in life. there's just no, we talk a lot about mentorship, but there's just no wind at your sails like.

having those types of people. I've had many of them. Sometimes they terrified me at first, right? Sometimes like I didn't know what to think of these people because it's a bit intimidating. But you realize that that was their style. And it sounded like you had some some real gems there. Can you can you tell us even more about some of those guys who are these, especially these early days? But then as you got a little further into it, you're packing bags. But who are some of these people who you met and what you learned from them?

Michael Bapis (10:58.399)

Right. Yeah.

Michael Bapis (11:16.565)

Look, would say those guys that I first started counting for, guy named Bob Schuback, owned a jewelry shop in Utah, became very successful. A guy named Elliot Wolf, they owned like a department store, one of the bigger ones in Salt Lake. Those are the two guys I really remember. They also, the pro there, a guy named T. Branca, he was there for 50 years. Legendary golfer, I catted for him a few times at some of the senior events. He was probably...

He was such a gentleman, everybody loved him. And he would just take me out and I would caddy for him either when he was just practicing or in competition at some of the senior events as well. And he's probably the person that I really learned the most from because I would just go out him and me. And he would, he's like, come on kid, let's go, let's go play nine holes. Let's go nine holes. would caddy for him. You know, I'd see him hit a couple of balls here and there. I'd see him, you know, I'd be running around grabbing it.

you know, he'd hit two or three balls in every hole, I'd run and grab him. And, you know, that's probably the guy that I learned the most from about etiquette. Where to stand, you know, don't move, how to re-contrap, how to fix a ball mark. It drives me crazy when people fix a ball mark the wrong way still. And so that guy is probably, and then as I got older, moving into the mentorship was Jim Flick. I mean, he's probably the most influential guy in my life.

from a golfing standpoint, I would run around at his schools from Boyne Highlands to Pebble to Pelican Hill, Desert Mountain, and he was just a character. I the guy, I remember one time we were practicing putting, when we were at Pebble, we would finish at four o'clock. And so the schools were at Spyglass and at 4.05, we'd either go play Pebble or Spyglass.

every day. We would call it one foot on the carpet, played all the way as far back as we could play it. And one time we were practicing putting before we were going out. And I said, this is when cross handed or left-handed lows just started kind of like evolving. And I said to him, you know,

Michael Bapis (13:35.891)

Mr. Flick, what do you think about left hand low on the putting cross-handed? And he looks at me and he called him a coach. He goes, only if you want to be a better putter coach and just move on. So ever since that day, I started putting cross-handed and I tell everybody it was a change in my game. And then there was another time, this is pretty interesting story. He called me.

late one night like you know for him late at eight o'clock or something we would go to this

We would go to this place called Harrell's and it's in Cave Creek just just below Yeah, that's right we talked about this yeah, that's right Yeah

Kai Sato (14:16.844)

I grew up right down the street, man. I'm from cave Creek. Yeah. Here, here, here, Harold's the horny toe, the satisfied frog. You got to know them all.

Michael Bapis (14:26.229)

So we were at Harold's one night. You remember that popcorn they had cooking in the back? We were at Harold's one night. And he's like, coach, meet me tomorrow morning at Drive Range, 8 a.m. And I go, I looked at the weather. It's gonna be freaking pouring. I'm like, okay. He goes, bring your umbrella. I said, okay. So I get to the course and I see his bag and I see Phil Mickelson's bag.

Kai Sato (14:28.854)

yeah.

Michael Bapis (14:54.649)

And then I see Tom Lehman's back. And so I basically went to the range with those three guys, watching Flick teach the two of them in pouring rain. And I held the umbrella and wiped the clubs. And I mean, that was an experience that I will never, ever forget. It was three hours in the pouring rain. Those guys were just banging balls. Flick's out there and I'm holding the umbrella for him. And then they'd come in, so I'd hold it for both of them. And then they'd go back out and hit and I'd hold it for him.

and just watch him teach these guys. And at that time, Nichols was just starting to really become good and Lehman was the number one golfer in the world at that time. So, you know, it just experiences like that where I just watched and just learned. And one time he was, was, another guy was teaching at his school and they told him something wrong and he goes, coach, why do I have you here if you're teaching these people the wrong thing?

He goes, that's not how you do it. Go over there, let me teach him for a minute. You're done for the day. Kick the guy right out. Said you're done. Because he was so passionate about golf. yeah, exactly.

Kai Sato (15:59.246)

Quality control. Let's expand on this one a little bit. First of all, I'm just curious. What was layman working on at the time and what was Phil working on at the time? Do you remember?

Michael Bapis (16:13.225)

Yeah, layman, layman, he had that swing where it was like more, was a low draw that he hit. And so he would, Flick's big thing was all feel. You know, have guys that are technical guys, you know, some of the other teachers are technical. He took your swing and just said, let me work with what you have and we'll feel the club. He would call, the weight of the club head. If you're squeezing it too tight.

You can't feel the weight of the club head. If you're squeezing it too loose, it falls out of your hand. So his big thing was put it at like 70 degrees, you 90, 180, like 120. So kind of like up like this. And that's how you should have grip pressure for your whole swing. And so he was working with those guys on grip pressure and layman, layman would get inside on the takeaway. So he would snap it. I mean, for him.

Kai Sato (16:47.202)

Mm.

Kai Sato (16:59.022)

Hmm?

Kai Sato (17:11.458)

Yep. Yep.

Michael Bapis (17:12.309)

not for us, I it was still a very good swing, but for him, he would snap it. So he was trying to take him more outside and then coming in when he would hit it. then Mikkelsen was kind of the same way, but he hit more of a cut. He was working on hitting cuts that day. Because those guys, the way they control the balls, believe, but those were the two, and it's crazy, I remember this, this has got to be, whatever, 30 something years ago, and I still remember it just like it was today.

Kai Sato (17:42.252)

course. I've gotten to play a pro and with with layman. He's an awesome guy. But that the fluidity to that swing and very different swing styles though. That's why I was kind of curious. I mean, we're all working on something. But yeah, exactly. And you know, Phil, Phil, can't teach a backswing like his right? I mean, you have to have such elite hand eye coordination. And so it's how did you inflict first link up? And I am going to force to tell you to you.

Michael Bapis (17:51.305)

Right? it's like a flatter, you know, it's that flatter swing, but.

Kai Sato (18:09.206)

So how do you wind up at Utah first? Because you get recruited, you play hoops and golf there, right? But take us through a little bit, indulge us of your athletic prowess. then how did you link up with Flick?

Michael Bapis (18:12.095)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Bapis (18:24.095)

Yeah, so I was, I played basketball, golf and baseball in high school. I had a legendary basketball coach who actually was very good friends with Phil Purcell, who's the old CEO of Morgan Stanley, became a very good family friend, one of my longtime mentors, probably from a business standpoint, one of the best mentors I've ever had. Just a true gentleman running a company of 60,000 people and you would never know it.

But my basketball coach in high school, Jim Yerkovich, was a legendary coach. He coached for like 50 years and he actually was very tight with, they went to high school together, Judge Memorial in Salt Lake City. So he kind of got me into golf. My dad got me into golf. I my dad would just either leave me at the golf course or he would just go out with me. He didn't learn to play golf till later in his life, but it was great time, great father-son time for us. And so I was good at golf.

I loved basketball. so I, most kids in, I grew up in Utah, obviously. Most kids in Utah just go to the University of Utah. So it's just kind of a thing, know, out where I live now, everyone goes away, but in Manassas, but in Utah, we kind of just went to Utah. So I knew the golf coach there. He was the son of T. Branca. His name was Ron Branca. And so he said, yeah, you know, come on, play. And so my first year and half, two years,

I was playing golf, but we would go to the weight room and it was the same weight room as the basketball guys. And so I would play summer league with all the hoops guys and then I would go work out with them probably to the detriment of my golf game. But I just love playing basketball. those guys ended up becoming NBA players. Andre Miller, Mike Doleac, Keith Van Horn, Honora Medalla, Alex Jensen, now the coach of the Jazz. All these guys were, we were all about the same age and we would play hoops together. So then I'm like, you know what? It's right after my sophomore year.

I said, I gotta scratch this itch, man. So I moved to Greece. I'm of obviously Greek descent. I went to Greece, went to the American College of Greece and played hoops over there. So my next two years I played hoops. In the meantime, I had gone to a golf camp at Wake Forest. Jesse, was the Jesse Haddock golf camp. That was when I'm digressing a little bit, but I remembered that you asked me that.

Michael Bapis (20:50.931)

So I go to Jesse Haddock's golf camp and...

I think Flick played basketball there too, but he was a very good athlete as well. And so I met him there through a guy named Jack Lewis, who was the golf coach at the time, because Jesse Haddock was a legend and he had just retired. And so I went to this golf camp two summers in a row and that's how I met him. And I kept in touch with him. I would help him at some of these golf schools and then finished playing Hoops and Grease, wanted to stay there. My dad's like, you're not staying there.

whatever. So I come back, I graduate my last quarter at Utah. I graduate like early December and I called Flick and I'll never forget. I called him and he didn't, he didn't call me back. So I call him the next day because he said, if you ever need a job, why don't you come down to Desert Mountain and work for my schools and you can work outside service Desert Mountain, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I call him, he doesn't call me back. I call him the next day again and he goes, I go coach, hey, sorry to bother you, Mr. Flick.

You know, just want, I left you a message yesterday. He goes, that was you? He goes, well, God damn it. Speak clearly into the phone. I couldn't understand your message, so I just deleted it. So I'm like, okay, yes sir. So I'm like, you he goes, start Monday if you want. So that was like a Friday, Thursday, Friday. I packed all my shit. I went down there, got an apartment and started working outside service. I would caddy for some of the senior tour guys down there.

Kai Sato (21:54.862)

You

Michael Bapis (22:21.215)

They actually had the senior, the tradition was one of the senior majors at the time. They had it at Cochise at Desert Mountain. So I just started working outside service. was valet parking cars at night for these guys. They ended up, it was the Mastros guys. They had this little restaurant, you remember Marco Polo? So I worked for those guys, parking cars at night and working at Desert Mountain during the day.

Kai Sato (22:42.556)

Yep. Yep.

Michael Bapis (22:50.325)

And then I just started looping. We worked our asses off, man. We would work 14, 15 hours a day for six, seven days straight. But I learned, it was a hell of an experience. I was around the game of golf. I learned about people. learned some guys would give you a 20, other guys would give you a dollar. And the guys that were assholes, I remember one time, one of the guys I worked with, this guy was so rude to us. He'd pull out 100.

And he go, wait, that's the wrong bill. And then he give us a dollar. And so this one guy had enough of it. So we took it. He took his bag in there. He takes a bottle of lotion and puts lotion all over this guy's grips. So the next day, the guy goes to the first tee, he gets up and we're all watching because we all know what happened. We get the guy's club slips right out of his hand, just goes flying down the middle of the fairway. We were dying in the the the catty yard.

laughing our asses off at this guy. But again, that's another lesson in life. Just be nice to people. I've been around so many guys that are worth so much money, so many people that are just so successful that you would never know it, and they treat people nicely. So, one of my biggest things is treating staff nicely, treating caddies nicely. I can't remember who it was with, but I was watching your show, some of the previous clips. He said, I pride myself on having the employees like me.

having the caddies like me, having everybody around me like me because I treat them with respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the wrist rocker, yeah, exactly. So, you know, that's a great way to live your life. And I try to really treat everybody with the same respect, treat everybody, no matter who they are. First of you never know who they are, but everybody deserves the same respect back.

Kai Sato (24:22.668)

The great Josh Isner, he was talking about Whisper Rock. Yep, yep.

Kai Sato (24:44.78)

It's always amazing when you and I were starting to put some of this stuff together, but we likely overlapped at Desert Mountain a little bit because that was, I didn't grow up there, but my best friend from growing up, he lived there. And that place to me was, that's where I first fell in love with golf. You I lived near Tatum Ranch and if I was lucky, I would get to five bucks and go play there. But once I started to get more into it.

Michael Bapis (24:58.141)

Okay.

Michael Bapis (25:07.658)

Yeah.

Kai Sato (25:09.966)

I started, you know, started playing golf at DM because of my buddy, my dear friend, Cody Short, who I talked to yesterday, literally my oldest friend in life. But, you know, that was, you talked about the tradition, like we would go and, you know, peek into Chichi Rodriguez and Jack Nicklaus's lockers up there. Right. And, you it was that that place still always holds a special place in my heart. But I mean, the first time I stepped foot on that and we're at renegade around the driving range and the

Michael Bapis (25:16.725)

That's funny. That's fun.

Michael Bapis (25:25.545)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kai Sato (25:38.444)

pyramid stacked balls and everything is so pristine and nice and you're afraid to touch anything. mean, by the way, the range balls are better than any ball you're playing. You know, any beat up ballada, maybe the Max Fly Revolution if you stole one or something or found one out there. But it was that that place made me fall in love with the game in a big way, but also just all aspects of it, not just golf, but these that these kind of cathedrals exist and that if you're lucky enough to be there.

Michael Bapis (25:40.297)

Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Bapis (25:46.537)

Yeah, right.

Michael Bapis (25:52.642)

that we could we still a couple of those i'm gonna lie we put a couple of balls in our pockets

Michael Bapis (26:02.815)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kai Sato (26:08.045)

Yeah, try to make sure that you're taking care of the staff. Otherwise, the clubs are going to be slipping out of your hands, right? But I think it's exactly that. And I was probably hitting down the range at some point in time when you guys were down there with Flick. And we were those piss ants that no one wanted to have around them. I was walking on eggshells. Some of the other kids were a little more cavalier. I remember they were jousting with golf clubs on the driving range at one point in time. I was just trying to make sure I didn't get kicked out.

Michael Bapis (26:13.179)

Exactly.

Michael Bapis (26:20.191)

That's crazy.

Michael Bapis (26:27.666)

So

Kai Sato (26:36.908)

I think I always had to, the first time I went up there, I think I still had to borrow a college shirt. it was, it was, was stuff like that, but DM is still just so special. And, and, no, it's, it's crazy to me that, that you were there at that time. so it is, I mean, it's, it's amazing. And the golf course is like, I mean, for anyone who hasn't been there, doesn't mountain.

Michael Bapis (26:50.741)

I know, that's crazy. That's crazy. It is a special place. mean, all the people that work there, the pro.

Kai Sato (27:01.998)

They they what they finally just gave up on naming golf courses. The last one's just called seven. But you know, it's this it's this mecca of Jack Nicklaus golf courses. And they used to have a senior tour event there. It's beautiful. It's pretty far up there in Carefree, Arizona. But, know, I thought when they built Chiricahua, they were done right. And they just keep expanding and expanding and going. It's one of these Lyle Anderson gems. But no, it's it's.

Michael Bapis (27:22.485)

Right? Yep.

Kai Sato (27:29.366)

These places, and I think you get to, you remember it several and we get to go places and things like that, but I think that it has such an indelible mark because you grow up in Utah or you grow up in Arizona and you see some pieces of it, but that's the cool part of this game is to me these are walkable works of art and you get to go and have these such idyllic experiences at some of the best places in the world.

Michael Bapis (27:52.341)

And the art of meeting people through golf is amazing. you know, I would never know you if we weren't golf.

Kai Sato (28:02.24)

No questions for anybody who cares and probably don't, but that be and I, mean, we were fortunate to get, get to play a decent amount of golf. We met at, would say the best member guests in the world. We were both lucky to be guests at, at El Dorado for pins and fins. And I think it's a, didn't even have to play together. We just came to be friends at the bar. And so, it's gone, it's gone from.

Michael Bapis (28:20.393)

Yeah, we did. I gotta give a shout out to my man, Kurt Larson, for always taking me down there.

Kai Sato (28:27.03)

Lars, the man in the mountain. so it's just why this game is so good and another recurring theme, right? mean, people, you you fall in love with this game and you never really know where it's going to lead. Can you, as you look back a little bit, did you like caddying? Was it a fun thing? What's maybe like a central lesson learned?

Michael Bapis (28:33.023)

Yeah. Yep.

Michael Bapis (28:53.557)

You know, I liked Caddy and I just loved it. You know, I loved making people happy. I loved helping them. I loved the work ethic. I mean, I stayed in shape. You you remember those bags? Those bags were heavy ass bags. Yeah, lugging those Burton bags around. And you know, when you put Caddy for the guys that trying to make it, they had everything in their whole damn house in those bags. And so, you know, kept in shape.

Kai Sato (29:06.574)

Were you packing those Burton bags?

Michael Bapis (29:21.973)

I just like being around the game. You're outside. I mean, everything about it. So it wasn't really work for me. You know, I mean, it was, and I made some good cash and I would, you know, spend it and do whatever I wanted with it. But it was more, you know, and I was working for tips, do an outside service, you know, you're, you're, want, and it's gratifying when someone says thank you and, know, you do a good job for them. And, and, you know, obviously you're not going to make money with it, but it's more of the personality, the people you meet. mean, like we just had a quick get to combo about the,

the amount of people I've met through the game of golf, which it all started, you know, learning to caddy, learning to, I told you this story, but one of the times that I didn't like it, there was a senior US Open qualifying at Sully Country Club and I grew up there. had played, you know, I knew the greens like as well as anybody. And so this guy comes in, comes from Oregon to qualify there.

Kai Sato (29:57.678)

Okay.

Michael Bapis (30:19.349)

Somebody knew somebody and they said, you caddy for him in the qualifier? So I played with him the day before and he saw that I could read the green. So he's like, listen, just tell me where to hit it. So we get there, we start playing and he shoots four under on the front. So, you know, he makes a nice, nice turn and he shoots one, one under on the back. So he obviously is five under six under qualified, but he was the alternate.

We finished around and I'm walking up this big ass hill, 18 to the, from 18 to the clubhouse, you gotta hike up a hill. You know, you're 5,000 feet above sea level hiking up a hill, young kid, but it's still a pain in the ass. So as we finished, he's like, he didn't pay me. And I'm like, okay. He goes, listen, excuse me. He goes, I'm not gonna pay you cash, but I'll send you a bunch of shit.

Kai Sato (31:19.994)

Okay.

Michael Bapis (31:21.045)

you know, like gear and all that stuff. And I'm like, okay, it's a little weird, but hey, if he sends me all that, fine. So like, two weeks later, I text the guy, like, hey, just checkin' in, make sure you have my address, something like that. And he fuckin' ghosts me and never sent me anything. So basically, I spent two days with this guy. The guy was an alternate and ended up getting into the qualifying.

Kai Sato (31:47.79)

you

Michael Bapis (31:51.281)

and doesn't pay me, doesn't send me one golf ball, nothing. And I never heard from the guy again.

Kai Sato (31:57.153)

He's had a lifetime of lip outs because of that.

Michael Bapis (31:58.997)

Right, right. He hits the tree and he goes out of bounds, not back in the fairway.

Kai Sato (32:04.844)

What kind of scratch were you pulling in and what were you doing with these funds at the time?

Michael Bapis (32:09.109)

Look, mean, between Cadian and Tips, you'd get 25, 30 bucks a day for Cadian and then get two to five bucks parking cars for Tips when you clean the guys' back. You're making some decent money back then. And I like to go out, as you know. So I'd spend it on drinks at the bar. I'd buy some stuff. But we got all that gear for free, so I didn't really need golf gear.

Maybe I'd buy a nice shirt to go out with here and there. And then I saved it too. I saved a lot of that money because everything was pretty much paid for when we worked.

Kai Sato (32:47.426)

Just so know, listeners, Bappy doesn't wait in line at restaurants. He just walks in and they seemingly know him and take him to his table. That's kind how he rolls.

Michael Bapis (32:55.413)

Yeah, man, I'm not waiting in lines anymore.

Kai Sato (32:58.381)

You

Michael Bapis (33:01.45)

Kai Sato (33:01.582)

It's crazy though. You talk about just remembering stuff. Was Danny Briggs at Desert Mountain at all when you were there? You remember Danny? So I got my very first nice set of golf clubs from the generosity of Danny Briggs, who was a former touring pro guys and just a sweetheart of a guy. he gave the course record. I can't remember which course at one point in time up there.

Michael Bapis (33:07.679)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Michael Bapis (33:16.671)

No way.

He was a great guy. Great guy.

Michael Bapis (33:25.887)

Yep. That coachees.

Kai Sato (33:28.238)

It was a coachee. So and Danny, he one night he we're at his house and he knew my best friend was dating his daughter, his stepdaughter at the time. And he could just see that I was obsessed with golf and I just got the bug. It was, you know, I was just getting into it because of Tiger. I was, you know, 13, 14 years old. And he's like, all right, come out to the garage. And this, you know, of course, speaking of pros actually giving stuff away, he he's just like, all right, what do you want? And so

Michael Bapis (33:52.297)

Right.

Kai Sato (33:57.024)

It's so crazy. think I may still have some of the stuff at my mom's house, but the Pro V1 had just come out. So he had all these demo balls. so everyone else was playing like the Blada 90s, Blada 100s, things like that. And so this Pro V392 had just come out. And it just held up so much better, definitely went farther. And then he gave me these tailor-made fire soles. I loved those. They were definitely not, they were probably stiffer shafts than I needed at the time.

Michael Bapis (34:09.673)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael Bapis (34:24.725)

Right? Right.

Kai Sato (34:25.102)

You know, not the most forgiving for a guy of my caliber at the time. And then he gave me a tailor made. It was like a three 20 driver. Of course we weren't at four 60 CCs then I could not hit it anywhere but straight right because it was like a super stiff shaft. I just couldn't couldn't get around on it. But shout out to Danny. He's a great man. But that that little thing that he did a couple of decades ago, I'll never forget.

Michael Bapis (34:38.259)

That's awesome. Yeah. Right, man, he worked.

Michael Bapis (34:49.577)

Yeah, that's awesome. He worked his ass off too, man. He was there all the time. And we'd just watch him hit balls in the range. We'd carry his bag for him. He was just a gentleman. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Kai Sato (34:58.018)

guy knocked down pins. His game was awesome. He kept it right. But yeah, so what was it like for you? You you grew up around the game, grew up at as a country clubs. What was the first club that you joined and how old were you? And what was that experience like?

Michael Bapis (35:13.397)

It was a solid country club. joined it as a junior member. I won the junior club championship, you know, when I was that age and, you know, actually one of the guys rest is sold. One of the older guys that I didn't mention, it was Bob Schubach, Elliot Wolf and this guy named Dick McGillis. And he was, he was one of the guys that I would go out with and et cetera. And he ended up being my sponsor at that country club.

And he wanted to be my sponsor. He's the one that suggested for me to join and I'm thinking to myself, well, okay, you know, I have a little bit of scratch, it was five, no, it was 2,500 bucks until you hit the age of 35. So, you know, that was a lot of money, but it was reasonable. You know, it's not like today what these things cost. And so I just took his advice and I joined.

My dad also had played there and he was a member there, but the guy wanted him to be my sponsor, not my dad. And so that was a pretty special thing that I'll always remember. And then, it just went from there.

Kai Sato (36:32.457)

What was it? What was it like having somebody looping for you, especially at that club where you'd been on the other side of that bag?

Michael Bapis (36:39.039)

Yeah, look, I mean, think it's like anything. You respect it more. You respect the caddies. respect, you know, and like we were talking about earlier, you got to treat everyone with respect and they appreciate it. mean, all the clubs that we play at, there's so many good caddies and so many guys that are looking for advice. So many guys that you know, just want to learn. And so I like to give back to that because I remember when I was on the other side of it, you know, I'm a member at Muirfield.

in Ohio and John Boy and those guys down there do a hell of a job. Chad, the caddy master, they have guys that I've helped out in their careers. Guys that are caddies and I've just kept in touch with them. And other guys are career caddies that are just great guys. And so being on the other side of it, you always have empathy for what it is and like.

I don't need them to rake every bunker. If I'm in the bunker and they're over there, I'll rake the bunker. It's not like some of these guys that are too big for the britches, but at the same time, you build a bond with them. And you have the same caddies everywhere. go to Whisper. A bunch of those guys are down there. I'm not a member, obviously, but have a lot of friends that are. So as you keep going to these places, you have the same caddies. And they remember you even as a guest in the Florida courses where I go. So I just think, you know.

Being on the other side of it, having done it, it's just like anything. Having empathy for the job, having empathy for the situation that the person's in, and also building a relationship with people that, again, you would never meet.

Kai Sato (38:19.025)

Yeah, yeah, and it's all team. I mean, we say teamwork between caddies teamwork between players, but it's everybody right and the more you know when the whole group's in sync right when when there's a good vibe or you know when you got a weak link or someone's dragging ass or somebody who doesn't want to be there player or cat. doesn't matter right and so you know trying to try to.

Michael Bapis (38:22.261)

100%.

Michael Bapis (38:29.129)

Yep. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's true.

Kai Sato (38:39.234)

Trying to get that perfect group together is always so fun and is noticeably better.

Michael Bapis (38:44.051)

No question. And you know, there are the caddies that try to tell you what to hit. I'm like, just give me the yardage, dude. I'll pick it. I hit that low shot. I could hit the same club, same distance. I could hit three different clubs. So you're not going to tell me what club to hit.

Kai Sato (38:50.21)

Hahaha!

Kai Sato (38:58.188)

I think that's what's so much part of the artistry, though. You're in the service business, right? And so you have to diagnose who your player is, but who your player is that day, and then what does that person want, right? So yeah, I have the same type of thing. People are like, hit that seven. Well, guys, I might not be feeling it. Maybe I'm a little tired. My body's out of sync. got it, right? Just.

Michael Bapis (39:01.365)

Yeah, 100%. Yep.

Michael Bapis (39:11.465)

So true.

Michael Bapis (39:18.259)

Right. Right.

Kai Sato (39:22.094)

Let me, I'm just trying to make contact some days guys. you know, whatever it might be, but, uh, you know, I'm always just so impressed. And we had some, some great guys on the bag when we got to play garden city with you, uh, still mad at you and not letting us pay, but I'll get you back. Don't worry. Uh, wear that shirt with pride. Still also speaking of left-hand low, a little pissed about that birdie you dropped. But, uh, you know, I had every intention of kind of coming back, but you know, not like, not like I'll remember forever.

Michael Bapis (39:23.965)

I hit it hard last night, I just want to hit that ball.

Michael Bapis (39:38.59)

I'm hosting.

Michael Bapis (39:49.395)

No, I got you. You'll return the favor out of your place.

Kai Sato (39:53.218)

No question, no question. I'll force you to do that soon. I don't want to take up too much of your time, anything else you, well, thank you. It's been awesome to hear more about this. just, I think, like so many of our guests, people who I'm fortunate to call friends, and there's just such a kind of spilled the same blood and the same mud type of shared experience. especially, I am curious. You've been on a lot of teams, and you've built teams. What do you look for?

Michael Bapis (39:58.963)

I love this. Yeah.

Kai Sato (40:21.974)

Or your team at Rockefeller, some of the people you hire a lot of former athletes. Do you ever hire former former caddies? Are they golfers? Like, what are some of these things that kind of define your team and your culture?

Michael Bapis (40:33.353)

Look, as we've talked about, I'm a big sports guy. So I try to hire athletes or people that have done something. Most of our team has been an athlete in some form or another. And I think you just learn discipline around the sports and the teamwork. you learn something that, I have my daughters, they were athletes their whole lives. They played lacrosse, soccer, basketball, golf. My youngest daughter, Georgia, played

for the Manassas golf team at school. She qualified for the counties. And my other daughter Maria, we go out all the time together. We just go play nine holes, screw around. But I tell them all the time, sports is gonna be so helpful to you in your life later on. I mean, the discipline that they have, the grit they showed, just the travel we did, just the bonding that we did. And the time that we all spent together.

and they spent together with their friends playing the sport. mean, I just think it's an invaluable lesson that without shitting on people that didn't play sports, just think athletes are different people. And if you played it even at a high school level, you understand the discipline it takes, the teamwork, the showing up early, the getting your ass kicked, the tears, the joys. You learn so much from it. I mean, that Michael Jordan quote, I hang it up in my girl's room.

that I've missed X amount of shots in my life, I've missed X amount of game winners, da da da da. And that failure drives my success. And so, know, the tears when we lost for my girls and the joys they had when they won championships. But again, it was a teamwork thing and they were all together with their friends. you know, I learned that you grew up playing sports, you were at a high level and you learn.

so much from it. And so that's why I like to hire athletes because I know they already have that.

Kai Sato (42:33.921)

Yeah, yeah, we talk about it. Well, I'm probably a little too obsessed with it, but just greatness, right? Like we always want to see the game winner, right? I'm sorry. It was probably against your jazz in 98. But like, it makes you feel any better, I was I grew up a sons fan, so he did the same thing to us. But but no, like, mean.

Michael Bapis (42:40.565)

Bye.

that was a killer. I'll never forget that. Like, stabbed right here. Jordan killed so many families, The Knicks, the Pacers, the Sonics, the Suns, the Jazz, you know, I mean, that guy was a killer for us.

Kai Sato (42:55.341)

Getting to...

Yeah.

Yeah, no question. But you look at greatness and I think we see it on Sundays in the NFL. You see it on Sundays in golf and you get to see people at the apex. But the path to get there is paved with failure, right? You have to keep staying in the game. Keep going and you know, getting I get to ask Al Michaels about this. How did you become Al Michaels? How did you become the greatest announcer? And what's that like? And so he wrote a fantastic book about it or Pete Sampras. Like, what would you have to go through? What was what was it? And there's there's all these valleys.

Michael Bapis (43:16.853)

100%.

Kai Sato (43:34.103)

to reach those peaks. so no matter what you're doing, it's why I like to cook and I like food. my friends who have become really accomplished chefs, it's the same type of thing, right? Like that same athlete mentality. But if you're going to chase greatness as any form, you're going to have to deal with failure. And how you deal with failure is going to define your success.

Michael Bapis (43:35.455)

crazy and you don't see any of it.

Michael Bapis (43:46.751)

Yeah, same.

Michael Bapis (43:53.141)

And I, know, I've taught my girls that the whole life, you know, and I can say they're better people for it, for having failed. And, you know, you see, you see, you see all these talks, these motivational talks. mean, I remember Jason Williams, the Duke basketball player, he said there's a story about him. And you guys should Google it, but there's a story about him and Kobe. Kobe was, they were at shoot around. Kobe was taking shots. He was taking, everyone was shooting. Everyone left the floor.

which is Jason Williams, Kobe. Kobe was shooting, Williams was shooting. Turns out they shot for like three hours and Williams was like, shit, I gotta go in the locker room. And so he left, Kobe left. They met at half court before the game. goes, did you do this every game? Kobe said, no, but I was not gonna let you outwork me. And I was gonna let you be the last person in the gym. I was gonna be the last person in the gym. And it's just stuff like that that you learn. Nobody's watching Kobe shooting a thousand shots. He's doing it. And how many did he miss?

But the greatness comes from practice and there's such a mental side to all of this. Your self talk is one of the most important components to any life, anything in life that you do. If you're self-deprecating or your subconscious will start to believe that. If you hit a bad shot, move on. And when you say, I suck or that sucked or whatever, you're gonna start believing it.

If say, I'm a good player, I can hit that ball. when I get in the jam on the course, like we all do, because obviously we suck. But anyway, the thing I always say is, look, I'm athletic. I know 100 out of 100 times I can make this club hit that ball.

So just focus on making the club hit the ball rather than all the other circus going on in your mind. And that actually brings up a story. I was lucky enough to be playing Augusta. And we would come up to A-Man corner and on the par three, I couldn't pick the club. And I was going back and forth, because it's all windy there and whatever. And the caddy looks at me. He goes.

Michael Bapis (46:10.197)

He called me Bubba, he goes, Bubba, looks like you got a circus going on up in that brain. You better get rid of that thing before the elephants take over. And I just started laughing. So I got up there and hit the shot, but it just made me laugh. You can see how I thinking and again, the mental side of it is just, it's so important and you learn that from playing sports.

Kai Sato (46:32.381)

Everything in life. Yeah, it dictates it. always try to, I used to remind guys when I was looping and still have to tell myself, you know, the next shot could be the best shot you've ever had in your life, right? That's it. That's all you got. the next meeting might be the best meeting in your life, right? So I'm gonna let you hop. But you did mention somebody that I've got to ask a question about. So former CEO of Morgan Stanley, mentor to you.

Michael Bapis (46:40.949)

Exactly. And the only shot you should worry about is the next shot.

Michael Bapis (46:47.007)

Yeah, yeah. All right.

Kai Sato (46:56.321)

What was that relationship like? Obviously a big figure in any community, let alone the business community and what'd you learn?

Michael Bapis (47:04.169)

Look, mean, again, he was so generous with his time. I mean, he's running a massive company. anytime I had a question, I would call him and he always had the time for me. I would go to lunch with him once a quarter. He would take me to dinner. I became good friends with his kids. You met Boo, right? Yeah, Boo's dad. and the guy was just amazingly down to earth.

Kai Sato (47:25.068)

Yeah, briefly.

Michael Bapis (47:34.431)

just a thinker, you could see when someone would ask him a question, he would just go like this. And then he would answer it. mean, he taught me so much about business, so much about life. I've been fortunate enough to be around him. He's the reason I'm at Muirfield. He said, look, have you ever considered joining? And I was like, my God, really? Are you serious? He's like, I think it's time for you to look at this club and maybe join here. And so that's how I got.

to become a member there. But just the, excuse me, like we spoke about earlier,

you watch someone like that treat everybody with respect, treat the caddies with respect. His son is very involved in the Evans, they're very involved in the Midwest Evans Scholar program. You know, and I got involved with that. But just the respect that he shows for people who are, you know, technically he's way up here, but you would never know it and you would always, you know, thank you. Oh yeah, you know, thank you to the caddies. He loves the caddies. loves, you know, whole Evans Scholar thing. Actually our,

or a outside guy, or a starter at Cardin City, his son was an Evans caller. Went to Colorado, I think. But just watching the interaction and the philanthropic way that they live their life and he lived his life and just the advice that he had every time I asked him in tough situations, it was always right when I look back. And so I've also tried to start doing that with younger guys.

and gals coming up in the business, I'll always take 15 or 30 minutes to talk to these people because they just want advice. They just want to learn. And our interns, I take time with them once a week, meet with them, just sit down with a session. Hey, what do you want to hear? And there's so many bright young minds out there. just want to be a little piece of helping them and grow because that's what I had.

Kai Sato (49:41.39)

You still do to this day you do for me. I'm going to keep forcing you to give me advice and make sure I'm not messing up too badly. If there are any other caddies you've come across any other stories we should go try to go track down BAPI.

Michael Bapis (49:47.999)

Yeah.

Michael Bapis (49:54.601)

Well, there are a few of them.

I got a shout out to Tommy at Beerfield. That guy's a character. He's something else. He's got some crazy stories. Irish Jerry, he's another caddy that we have at GC. He shows up just, you you don't know what happened the night before, but nothing jumps out, you know, that I could probably say here, but there's some crazy caddy stories out there that these guys are just characters and it's fun.

Kai Sato (50:20.141)

Yeah

Kai Sato (50:28.747)

Well, appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing yours.

Michael Bapis (50:31.315)

Yeah, I'll leave you with one thing. I have a putter right there and a hole. So when I'm on conference calls, I'm just hitting putts, practicing, getting the game in tune. So it's everywhere we are. Right? Right.

Kai Sato (50:43.703)

think I got five of them right there in a putting area right over there. think I wouldn't be able to survive without my AirPods. And then most importantly, because for whatever reason, it has been the summer of DeMaso. So we got to give a quick shout to our buddy Mike DeMaso. I don't know how many places I've gone this summer. And they know Mike for some reason.

Michael Bapis (50:50.094)

Anyway.

Kai Sato (51:06.23)

And I don't even get enough time, but we of course like it's like one degree of separation with the Maso from every single human being that I know, including you.

Michael Bapis (51:13.075)

It's so true. Last week and this week I played with him. So I played with him yesterday. So Mikey D, cheers my man. Yeah, I did. He's not here to stay otherwise, so I did.

Kai Sato (51:19.532)

I hope you beat him. All right, Tomaso. All right, well, appreciate you, brother. Thank you for your time. Thanks for sharing what you have. And keep doing what you do. All right, buddy. Have a great day.

Michael Bapis (51:27.125)

All right, you're the man. Thanks, dude. I really appreciate you on it. It's awesome what you're doing. Keep it up. Thanks, dude. Cheers.

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