Official Caddying Story: Josh Isner
As President, Josh is responsible for the day-to-day operational excellence of the business, including operations and execution, marketing, policies and employees. Josh joined Axon in 2009 as a member of Axon’s leadership development program and quickly established a strong track record of delivering results. In 2014, Josh led Axon’s domestic body camera and cloud software sales team to a record year and was subsequently promoted to Executive Vice President of Global Sales. In 2018, he stepped into the role of Chief Revenue Officer, responsible for Axon’s global growth, customer service, professional services, and sales operations, successfully driving annual growth rates in excess of 25%. Josh was tapped to be Axon’s COO in June 2022. He is a keen operational leader who drives discipline and prioritization across the business, and ensures that Axon is aggressively pursuing our total addressable market opportunity, supported by a world class team. Josh is a board member of the Phoenix Police Foundation and holds a B.S. in Government + Political Science from Harvard University.
The following transcript is AI-generated and has undergone only minor edits. Please refer to the video recording for direct quotes.
Kai Sato (00:00)
Welcome to Caddyshack to Corner Office. I'm your host, Kai Sato. On this show, we recognize the most accomplished people who once caddied and grow the game by assisting people following their path. Today, I'm lucky to be joined by my good buddy, Josh Isner. Josh, thanks for taking some time.
Jisner (00:16)
Good to see you, Kai. Thanks a lot. I'm excited that you finally got down far enough on the list of people you wanted to interview that I was eligible here. So, must be a slow month for you, but I appreciate it.
Kai Sato (00:27)
Well, in fact, quite the opposite is true. I didn't know that you had looped. And when you and I were playing in a golf tournament together this month, in fact, I think we'd finally built enough trust and you shared something that was with me. And immediately that catapult somebody like Josh Isner to the top of the list. So I do really appreciate it. Before we dive in, would you mind just giving the listeners a little background on you, what you do now, what constitutes your corner office as the president of Axon?
Jisner (00:56)
Sure, so I've been at a company called Axon for 16 years. Came straight out of college. Two weeks after I graduated, I drove across the country from Boston to Arizona to start working. Back then, our company was named Taser. It was named after our only product, which, as you can guess, was the Taser gun that the police use. And since then, we've made some large investments into video, into SaaS software, virtual reality, AI, a lot of different products now.
I'd characterize us now as kind of the tech company that serves public safety. We make all the cool next generation products that the police use. Our mission is to protect life. We're trying to make sure police officers and civilians get home safely every day. And we've had a lot of success doing that. our Taser device have saved over 200,000 lives in the field where a person could have otherwise been shot and killed.
you know, justifiably according to the law and instead the officer used less lethal force and then same with the body cams, you know, that's been probably the biggest part of our business over last 10 years, you know, showing what happens in policing day to day, you know, emphasizing mutual accountability and transparency. I think, you know, it's one of the few things these days that everybody can agree on that, you know, more transparency into public safety is a good thing and...
I think we're building a lot of trust and having some really good outcomes as a result.
Kai Sato (02:20)
It's an amazing story and it's incredible company, especially as a Arizona kid born and bred. It's one of the true success stories that we have in the state, but also in the country. So it's very, very cool to learn a little bit about you guys. And we're going to ask a lot more questions about your role there, what you've done leadership, because I think it always dovetails back to some of these earlier days. But if you wouldn't mind, where'd you first caddy and how old were you when you got going?
Jisner (02:43)
Yeah, yeah. New Seabury Country Club in Cape Cod, Massachusetts had to have been 13 or 14 years old. And I always wanted to caddy, but our club didn't have caddies as I was growing up. But then they built a new course, I should say they renovated the course there for a summer. then they couldn't take carts on the course that summer. And so they started a caddy program there. And it was a very, very cool thing to be a part of.
I spent the summer doing that and worked the driving range and other kind of similar jobs over that time as well. Being a big golfer myself, nothing better than being out on the golf course instead of going to summer camp or doing some restaurant job or whatever it was inside. So that's how I spent the summers.
Kai Sato (03:28)
How did you even get the idea? said you're about 13 years old, wanted to be a caddy. Had you seen them? you talk to people who had done it? Like, how did the idea even come about?
Jisner (03:37)
Yeah, so I was aware they had a lot of caddy programs in different courses around the area, you know, in Massachusetts. And I just thought it would always be, you know, more fun. Like I, you know, I played golf a lot. So walking with a golf bag on my shoulder wasn't, wasn't that foreign to me. And so the idea I could be out there and especially with folks that maybe weren't, you know, as, as adept with golf, helping them out a little bit, you know, building some relationships, making sure that.
that I was learning along the way in terms of how to conduct myself and so forth. It was just a great summer job. I got a lot out of it. whenever you can marry getting paid in golf, that's a good combination.
Kai Sato (04:16)
No question. How'd you get into the game originally? You said you were a player before.
Jisner (04:20)
Yeah, I grew up playing, I probably started when I was seven or eight years old. just frankly hated summer camp. I just hated it. Like the nature walks, all the BS. Are we allowed to curse or we keep it clean on this podcast? Yeah, all the bullshit that came along with it. Yeah, okay, be careful what you ask for. But yeah, all the bullshit that came along with summer camp, doing like pine cone drawings and going outside and just walking around in the woods.
Kai Sato (04:32)
Dude, you can say whatever the fuck you want. Be you. Be you.
Nah, I need it.
Jisner (04:48)
like forget about this stuff, give me some other option. My parents were like, look, if you want to just go up to the driving range every day and learn how to play golf, you could do that. I did that for about two days and realized, hey, this is going to be a lot of fun. And literally lived at the golf course all summer as I was growing up. I'd go there, get there at seven or eight a.m. with my friends, hit balls, hit a million balls during the day, play late in the day once the kids could get out on the golf course and...
you know, wouldn't trade it for anything. It was an awesome way to spend the summers.
Kai Sato (05:18)
So aside from just getting out of summer camp, were you good right away? You clearly got the bug, but like, did you just flush a seven iron? You said, this is fucking it. Like I'm never, I'm like, what was?
Jisner (05:25)
No, there
was, I'll never forget my first time out on an actual golf course. I had to be maybe eight by this time and they have junior golf at five o'clock at night and you all the kids would get together. And so we go out, hit my, you play scramble. So I hit my tee shot and I think someone else hit a better one. So I get into the middle of the fairway, literally never been on a golf course before and I just teed my ball up in the middle of the fairway.
excuse me, that's you just don't do that in golf. And so as nice as it would be to do, I learned pretty quickly that I got to learn the rules of the game. But yeah, after a couple of years, I was getting to be pretty good and a decent junior golfer in Massachusetts and love the competition and love the game. Only game you can call a penalty on yourself. So that's, I think you build a lot of character playing golf.
Kai Sato (06:17)
Yeah, we're going to explore it a little bit further because you took it pretty far. You played it at a high collegiate level. But zooming back to the caddying days, what was that first day on the job? What did you wear? Were you intimidated at all? Just excited? Just didn't know your ass from your elbow?
Jisner (06:34)
I was pumped. Part of it too was I was pumped to see the new golf course because you know, the reason we were doing this is because you couldn't take carts out there and I'd never seen the renovations of the course. And so I was pumped for a couple different reasons. I had my, you know, my wife calls me midget legs. got really short legs. So I had, I had shorts on that probably went down to like my mid calves and you know, so definitely those were a staple of my summer attire and then some oversized golf shirt. And so,
Yeah, you know, threw a couple bags, one on each shoulder. was catting for two guys that, one of which I keep in touch to this day with, their names were Rick Heinick, who was a really successful executive as a chief human resource officer and Ed Baker, who actually lives out here in Scottsdale now right down the street from me. And they were awesome guys. They were good golfers, but also, you know, there was an opportunity, especially with Rick to...
teach them a little more about the game in terms of how your ball would react in a certain lie or course management type stuff. So I think we really enjoyed each other that summer. We were out there and they were playing a lot. They'd let me hit a shot once in a while, which was really fun and nice of them. And we had a great time out there. It was a really fun little tradition we had.
Kai Sato (07:49)
You're still in touch with these guys, that's incredible.
Jisner (07:51)
Yeah,
yeah, it's, you know, I still go back to that same place in the Cape and much like you, you know, went from being a caddy to being a member there and that was a really cool kind of, you know, metamorphosis and, you know, I still see those guys, I still play in tournaments that they're in as well at times, member guests and all that stuff and they were great to me when I was a kid. So, always easy guys to try to, you know, emulate and be around.
Kai Sato (08:18)
So you were a really good player, could add value to these guys right away even as a 13, 14 year old. Did you make any big blunders, screw up, completely screw the pooch out there at all? Like trying to tee the ball up in the fairway?
Jisner (08:30)
There's probably a couple of those. Like the obvious ones are like, I think we'll find it. No need to hit a provisional. Then you walk 250 yards out there and realize that ball ain't coming back. And so there was a little of that. Probably the biggest one is I fell in love with actually playing while I was a caddy, because they were letting me hit shots, you know, here and there, you know, especially on the 18th hole or whatever. Probably got a little too focused on that at times and a little less focused on actually doing my job. But hey, that's the stuff you learn out there. It's like, you know.
sometimes you just got to suck it up and do what you're supposed to do instead of do what you want to do and so but yeah those were probably a couple of the greatest hits out there.
Kai Sato (09:07)
Who are some of the other people you still get to see a lot of these folks? mean, what was the culture like? What was the environment like? How do they treat caddies? How do they treat you?
Jisner (09:16)
Yeah, this was a little different, I would say at New Seabury because because there wasn't a caddy program historically and it was generally the members kids that were doing the caddying. It probably was a little less friction than you'd normally see, you know, kind of getting introduced as a caddy into a club. You know, I generally knew a lot of these folks or my parents did, you know, everybody was wanting to play the new course. And so there was plenty of work to do and, you know, ultimately, you know, it was fun to.
maybe go from seeing people on the driving range to carrying their bag out there and getting to know them a little better and all of that.
Kai Sato (09:52)
Total Cupcake Caddy, we get it. Yeah, Super Coast J- No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
Jisner (09:54)
100%. This is like, yeah, Billy Madison
of caddies, think would be a good way to put it.
Kai Sato (10:01)
No, we run the game with them. We've had people who didn't tell their parents they were caddying because you're not allowed to at the club. And then of course, you're an Evans Scholar, you go into this full like Lord of the Flies situation. Or when I was looping, you're dealing with some guys who are much older who are doing this year round, it'll take your head off. you got to really kind of pay your dues type of situation. So I think the dynamic is just always so interesting. And you know, wherever you loop is wherever you loop.
Jisner (10:08)
Yeah.
and
Yep.
Kai Sato (10:27)
You also you're still packing bags in the dead of summer. It's not easy work.
Jisner (10:30)
That's right.
That humidity is no joke out there. The swass is coming on just, just, you know, full speed and you're, you're just hanging on for dear life out there.
Kai Sato (10:41)
What kind of scratch were you making? You enjoyed this whole experience? Were you making some decent money?
Jisner (10:45)
It wasn't great, especially by today's standards. was, essentially the way the club looked at it was pretty much like it's a replacement for a cart fee. And so this was closer to indentured servitude than it was to actually making any money. it was, you know, I probably made, I don't know, 50 bucks for 18 holes, you know, per bag, you know, looping and carrying them around. But hey, for a 13 year old, that was plenty of cake. So that was fine with me.
Kai Sato (11:13)
Yeah, how were you redeploying that capital into your voracious appetite?
Jisner (11:17)
It's funny you say that my number one answer was gonna be food So yeah, I was coming out of college. I was a stud like 510 275 and It wasn't like it wasn't it was none of that 275 was muscle maybe my calves You know some people joke that about 95 % of my muscle mass is in my calves, which is probably true and so yeah, it's a
You know, I was investing heavily the 99. I don't know if you've ever been to the 99 anywhere. It's like a Northeast kind of pub chain. Best Buffalo wings on the planet. I ate a million of those, a million Diet Cokes and you know, whatever was left, I was spending in high school and college in similar ways. So yeah, that was the.
Kai Sato (12:02)
By the way,
do not get it twisted. Josh Isner hits the shit out of the ball. So he absolutely cranks it. So whatever he was feeding himself, wherever the muscle has been distributed, the guy still hits it a long way. Hits it so hard, I mean he's had back problems and fortunately they've been completely alleviated at this point.
Jisner (12:18)
Yeah. Where
are my back brace today? Actually, we had, you know, we played a couple of weeks ago and then we had the whisper rock member guess this last weekend. So a lot more golf than I would usually play in a six or seven day span and a little sore this week, but we're hanging in there.
Kai Sato (12:33)
How did you shake out at the, was it the hang?
Jisner (12:35)
It was the hang. It was the hang. I love the hat. It was the hang too, actually. So now there are two of them. This was the second one. I play with my boy James from Vegas every year in this thing. We've won the flight the last two years. Unfortunately, this year we were third. We got off to a rocky start in the first match and played pretty good from there. But in these things, sometimes you lose one match by two or three and it's tough to dig out of that hole.
Kai Sato (12:38)
work
Razor Sharp, as you and I had to endure. Unfortunately, we just missed this one down at El Dorado this last weekend by literally a one foot putt. It was one point lip out. That's how the cookie crumbles and it's very frustrating at times, but you still have a great time. But as competitors, as you and I, we love the competitive side of this thing. It's still not on me. I'm not gonna lie. I've definitely thought about it the last couple of nights.
Jisner (13:07)
no.
Yeah.
I hear ya, I hear ya, there's not a lot of things that guys our age can really compete in and golf is one of those things so when you have the opportunity and you don't take it, it's always a bummer.
Kai Sato (13:33)
Well, and we won't name any names, Joaquin Bond, but we absolutely fleeced him and Shugich in our last match, kept them out of the horse race. So anyway, that's neither here nor there, but we won't document that for all of posterity.
Jisner (13:39)
⁓
⁓ bummer. Bummer.
I'm sorry to hear that about Los, one of my favorite people out here in the valley and kills me to hear that he didn't seal the deal last week.
Kai Sato (13:56)
one of the absolute great guys. So talking to great guys, what was it like? What were you learning? What were you picking up? Because these are really formative years. Did you have any idea what you wanted to go do? You're like, yeah, I want to go run a technology company, right? Did you have any semblance of that? Did you learn some of those things from people that you're catting for?
Jisner (14:14)
Yeah, it's funny. wanted to be a lawyer pretty much my whole life until I got to college and actually worked at a law firm and realized, you know, it's not like on TV where you're in front of a judge all day. Like 99 % of the job is like this not glorious paperwork and reading depositions and all that. But I would say I learned a lot. I think if you're a kid, the best thing you could do is do a bunch of non-
non-glorious hard work. And like, if you do that and it's not beneath you, and you grind it out, and you're carrying two 40-50 pound bags, and someone's barking at you about something, you know, not having the right distance, and so forth, it just builds character. You learn like, hey, this is what real life is like. It's not like I get to show up and do whatever I want every day. I'm like here to do a job and...
It doesn't matter if the job is mule and golf bags around or something else, scooping balls at the range, cleaning people's clubs, all that. It's like, that's the kind of stuff where you just realize like, hey, you know, this is what it takes. Like this is, know, hopefully you get to do something more interesting over time, but it's that same work ethic and grid. And it also gives you lot of appreciation and respect for the people who do do that, you know, day in and day out, you know, for their whole careers. It's, you know, I have a lot of respect for folks who.
who grind like that and think they deserve all of our appreciation. so having been through it myself, even for a little while, certainly something that I look back on fondly and with a lot of appreciation and lessons.
Kai Sato (15:45)
Yeah, you were always willing to put in the work. You not only played golf at Harvard, and would love to hear a little bit about how you matriculated there, but you also were a manager of the basketball team. So speaking of putting the spit shot on the floor, making sure there's no sweat out there, showing up early, cleaning, all of that stuff, what was that like balancing golf and also being a manager of a basketball team?
Jisner (15:56)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Golf, was, I like to tell everyone around here in the office that, don't forget there's a division one athlete walking around every day in here. That's met with varying degrees of reaction. Some people just don't believe it, which I don't blame them. Some people go straight to golf isn't a sport and other people are just so angry about that fact because they look at me and they're like, how the hell did this idiot play college sports? but yeah, it was.
Golf was, I was as marginal of an Ivy League golfer as you could possibly be. My freshman year I cracked the top five a little bit, but overall, nothing to write home about in my college career. But basketball is a different story. I would say in terms of everything I learned in college to include in the classroom, being a manager on the basketball team under Coach Amaker there was by far the best way to prepare for real life.
And so learned a ton about leadership, ton about battling through adversity, ton about just coaching people and being coached. And also just, you know, having a lot of fun. Like, you know, the coaches, I told you what my build was like in college. So the highlight of their day would be just rolling balls out on the court that I would have to go chase and bring back and wipe the floor down and all that. So they had a blast just working me all day.
It was quite an experience, but nothing like sports.
Kai Sato (17:25)
For the listeners,
Josh was a little wider back then. so he may have been tipping around 280 on that frame of him, not the tallest man. And so there was some real work that was gonna take place there. when I say, I don't care, it's not like you're getting NIL money as a basketball manager like this day and age. That is a thankless, brutal job, and yet you get so much out of it.
Right, you get to be around real greatness and great leadership.
Jisner (17:55)
Yep. And Jeremy Lynn was there when I was there. And so just watching how he approached his college career and how hard he worked and, you know, frankly, a lot of people saying that he was, you know, wouldn't be good or, know, was somebody that, you know, was very marginal college player to see, you know, we knew that wasn't true. saw how hard he worked every day, but then to see him make it in the NBA was pretty special. And so we, say that a lot at work. Like we hire a lot of former athletes here and
really between sports and the US military, I don't think there's anything that can get you prepared for hard work and dealing with adversity and just grinding it out quite like sports or military service. And so, we love people who have been through those experiences.
Kai Sato (18:40)
was gonna ask about that actually, having known a little bit about the culture that you guys have there, why it's so unique, how you guys self-select, but just hearing what you were like looping and how Josh is coming together as a guy then, and then how that continued while you were at Harvard, it seems like you've always been around this grit, this hustle, this hard work, and especially at Axon, you tell people who may not know about the company and the culture, but what makes
an axonian an axonian
Jisner (19:11)
Yeah, it's a great question. We're trying to emulate the 2000 to 2020 New England Patriots dynasty. That's the easiest way to put it. Like all of the same themes that built the New England Patriots we try to deploy here. Things like blocking out the noise or having a next play mindset. can see behind me there. Next play is something we talk about a lot where it's like, hey, it doesn't matter what just happened.
It's over. Like, the only thing you can focus on is what's next. you know, everything from how we think about personnel to like, hey, we have a salary cap. There are going to be these like, you know, high-priced veterans we bring in, but for every one of those, we need to make sure we have a couple of kind of rookies that we're developing along the way that, you know, can really turn into, you know, a valuable player on our team for the long term. You know, the Patriots are famous for having these three words, smart, tough, dependable. Those are the three things.
that you know coach Belichick always expected everybody to be able to do or be very you know like day in and day out and here you know at Axon the three words we focus on is we like sharp people you know you got to be really smart our founder Rick it's one of the smartest people I've ever met maybe be smartest and to be able to hang with him it just takes a certain level of intellect so you got to be sharp you got to be adaptable we're a high growth company we're growing very very fast and we're lucky enough to to be in that position but
⁓
Things are different every year and if you don't have adaptable people that can change with the company It's probably not going to work out over the long term and then we want unstoppable people this this concept of being relentless and just like hey no matter what happened today We're focused on tomorrow and doing the best we can and that's a combination of putting in the work You know having a high give-a-shit factor and just you know day in and day out you know doing the things that that we feel like prepare people to
to be successful when you tally up the score throughout the year. for us, we're a very sports-centric culture. That lends itself to...
It's kind of like a pick your own adventure you you have to want to be that because There are times where folks question like hey is is having this you know has five you know having 5,000 type a super competitive people the best like internal dynamics, and I think yes You know I want people competing with each other I want people who are gonna be pushed to be better and look around at their teammates and constantly wonder hey is this a team I'm good enough to be on and I think that's what pushes people to be really
good. But you know, it's not for everyone. We say that a lot. Our company is not for everyone and the people who self-select into it, you know, tend to spend abnormally long periods of their career here. You know, I've been here 16 years, the only company I've ever worked for, same with our founder. But you go down the list, we have, you know,
alarmingly high rate of people who have been here 10 plus years and and that's you know the sign of You know, I think a really healthy company when people come here they're challenged They try to get better every day But but they're in love with the mission and they want to be here for large stints in their career so You know sports and you know growing up in sports whether it's as a caddy or a manager of a basketball team or a player on a team It's all you know, it's all that same stuff. It's like hey, you know, you could you could
do
your best and work hard and get everything out of something that you wanted to and you could still lose. And that's the only way you learn that is in sports. And it's a question of how that makes you better. And do you take your ball and go home or do you double down the next day and say, hey, we're going to get this right. And so we love people from sports backgrounds.
Kai Sato (22:47)
No question. Can you elaborate on, you thought you weren't going be an attorney and you obviously navigated away, I'd say made a much better decision, went out in the real world and kind of figured out what attorneys actually do, who you were, how things fit. But you think about a kid who's out there looping this summer or a former Evans Scholar, former We Met Foundation kid, and they're trying to kind of navigate that.
Any advice that you can share with some of those guys to learn about themselves, how to keep getting better? What would you offer them?
Jisner (23:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their parents might not like this advice, but it's from my personal experience what I would recommend is like, look, you gotta get good grades in school and college. You can't fail out. But to me, the difference between, the choice I made was if I dedicated all my time to schoolwork, I probably could've got a high threes or close to a 4.0 GPA. Instead, I was very comfortable with being a 3.3 guy right in that range.
but I was working 40 hours a week at the same time. And so to me, the combination of being a little less available in the classroom, I'd always try to take classes that required essay writing instead of tests at the end of the semester. So I didn't really, I could kind of watch the lectures online or whatever, do the work, but feel like, I just gotta sit down and write a paper at the end of this, not answer a bunch of questions about the material. To me, that was the way to do it because, you know,
I was, after four years of working full time throughout college.
I was someone who was like, look, I get it. I know how to function in an office. I know how it is in corporate America. You know, I understand what the expectations of me are. I understand how to talk to people more senior than me and not waste their time and, know, but, get what I need to be able to go do my job better. And so when I got out of college, I felt like, Hey, this is, I'm ready for this. Like it wasn't, you know, we see a lot of kids come, you know, Ivy league grads that had 4.0 GPAs that don't
know how to function at a company and it's because they spent all their time in college in a classroom and as our good friend Taylor Swift says life is just a classroom so the more you get out of the classroom and live life the more you learn and so to me my advice to all the kids grinding it out is try to find a way in college to you know to work in an office even if it means trading off a little classroom time to be able to do that.
Kai Sato (25:13)
I could not agree with you more. And it's funny, another former caddy, Dean of the Business School, Jim Ellis, when I was at USC, he told us to get the hell out of the classroom, right? He said, there's so much that we can't teach you here. And I used to do two internships a summer, after my sophomore year, after my junior year, I already knew where I was gonna work after graduation. And my mentality was, I'm going pro. LeBron and I are almost the exact same age, and same with Zuckerberg. And I'm like, those guys are my competition.
Jisner (25:23)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Kai Sato (25:42)
I know when I'm graduating, they happen to be
much better at their respective skills, but I'm going pro. so it was, you know, start an internship before the summer even started, quit that one, go work at another one until a month into the school year. But that's how I got to intern at Discovery Land Company in 2005 and learn about that. Push a mail cart at UTA and learn all about the kind of nucleus of the entertainment business at that time. I think that Jim Ellis and
Here's the Dean of the Business School could not agree even any more with that. And it is a problem these days because people don't know how to function as you put it and they're blindsided. Right. And especially I graduated in 2007. You graduate with 2008. Not a good job market. Right. And it was a tough environment. And I think kids are graduating right now and it's not it's not a great environment. So just getting out there, getting reps, taking an internship, do whatever you can because
Jisner (26:18)
Yeah.
Netizens, netizens.
Kai Sato (26:35)
There's only so much that you're gonna get out of that textbook. And I think we know that, but to your point, I mean, my best buddy who also put you in touch with Brian Werner always teases me because I didn't graduate cum laude and he did. And I'm like, I didn't care. Yeah, he was gonna go on the Marine Corps and that's what he's good at, but I knew what I was gonna go do and I was turning pro in something else other than sports.
Jisner (26:47)
Yeah.
Yeah.
100
%
I love it. And I think what a lot of people miss is like, Hey man, like every day, whether it's caddying with, with, you know, and working for a couple, you know, guys that day or, you know, working in kind of a, like you said, in a mail room or whatever, whatever it is, those are always opportunities to build out your network and meet new people. And you never know someone you meet there could be transformative in your career. For me, it was, I was doing mock trial in high school and then in college, our mock trial coach was
was from high school was a lawyer in town and that's the law office I worked in you know for those years and that's how I learned to you know just just what to do in an office and then you know folks it's funny folks that were attorneys in that office they now work at Axon because I saw them doing their jobs and said hey these guys are good at what they do and so you know you never know where those relationships bring you but
But I think that is one thing, like instead of focusing, like Coach Amaker used to say, like, just don't get through today, get something out of it. And I think that's very true in kind of entry level jobs, where it's like, the thing you want to get out of it is like the relationships you build and the brand you build for yourself there, because you never know, those things can often lead to a pretty big breakthrough.
Kai Sato (28:08)
It's amazing you say those things because people look at your resume, right? 39 years old, look what you've done, look at the company you run. And then when you and I talk about greatness or the stepping stones, it's marginal improvement every day, right? It's the compounding returns of that. And you're so big on that. That's how you've gotten to where you are. But it started way back when of compounding, compounding, compounding, building, building, building. And, you know, as they always say, the thing about overnight success is it takes a long time.
Jisner (28:22)
Anymore?
No doubt, no doubt. Yeah, I saw that, some on LinkedIn or something at some point, it's like if you could just get 1 % better every day and you add it up at the end of the year, you've outpaced your competition by three, four, five acts, mean, and that's what it's all about. It's like, hey, how, you know, the world's changing a lot.
Every day there's more competitors, there's more people who want your job, there's more people who want your customer base, whatever it is. And it's like, if you're not getting better, those people are going to eat your lunch. so, so, you know, making sure that it's a culture of like, Hey, this is, this is how we do things here. And, you know, the grind, it only gets harder as you have success, the expectations only grow. And you got to be comfortable with that. You got to feel like that's a challenge and an opportunity for you. And, and I'm really proud of a lot of people on our team. I think that that is how they think about things.
Kai Sato (29:27)
Where did the drive come from for you? mean, you're talking about understanding networking at a very young age, right? You didn't just wake up as a junior in college and say, hey, you know what? I just started networking. I'm going to start sending out some LinkedIn connections, right? Like, you were building things that were intangible. Where did that come from? What was motivating you?
Jisner (29:45)
Yeah,
I think as I've always had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, I'd say like I'm at a fiercely, fiercely competitive person, but also
Like we talked about, mean, being not a very athletic kid growing up and carrying around a lot of weight and all that, people always just don't expect much out of you. And I've always had, you can see today, I mean, the amount of work I put into my personal appearance rounds to zero. And so that's a little bit of something to overcome at the beginning of your career and whatever. And even my interview at Taser.
They came they gave me a rejection. They said hey, you know We're gonna go in a different direction and I kind of followed up with them and I said hey like I believe in what you guys are doing and if you give me a shot I don't think you'll regret it and I sent that note out to the founder of the company and got a call from HR the next day saying hey You know Rick wants to give you a shot and got in here people didn't think much of me early on and it's like I'm just gonna prove
that I'm good, that I'm better than most people, that I can hold my own. And at the end of the day, really just a choice you make. Certain things have to materialize and sometimes you get lucky or whatever. But if you show up and you try to not only do your job, but do it at a level that is just better than...
than most people who do that same job, people take notice eventually. And when you stack up those things over multiple years, all of a sudden your brand becomes like, Hey, this is a reliable guy. This is someone who's never going to bitch about what the work schedule looks like or how many hours he has to put in. And someone who like wants to compete and show people twice his age that, that he can hang with them and that, you know, he's capable of doing this. And, you know, I was, I was, you know, one of the things I'm most proud of in my career is I
a section 16 officer at a public company in my 20s and I was the president of the company by 37 and you know, more $50 billion company. Now I'm on, you know, younger people that runs a company that size. And it's all because it's like, Hey, I'm competitive. I wake up and give a shit every day and, and I'll try my hardest and, not overthink it. Like, Hey, just make one good decision a day and stack those things. And over time, you know, you're pretty happy with where things get to.
Kai Sato (32:01)
The one thing I'd add onto that is there's no person or task too small in your world. And so that's not unnoticed for someone who gets to call you a friend, has got to know you over the last several years. Whether we're at a golf course, anything like that, treats everyone the same and exceptionally well. And I think that's, when you talk about how leaders lead, that's an absolutely critical component, especially in a company teaming with former military athlete type A personalities.
Jisner (32:05)
No doubt.
Kai Sato (32:28)
because there's a humanity to it that's so critical.
Jisner (32:30)
I appreciate you saying that and that's the ultimate compliment for me because that's ultimately, I really pay attention to that. Not only how I treat others, but how other people treat others. My friends are always the people that I feel like show the ultimate respect to others, whether they're a janitor or whether they're a CEO and the people I like least in life are the people who change how they behave based on who's sitting across from them.
I tell my kids at the end of day, the number one thing, if nothing else goes well, we're going to treat people extra nice that aren't as lucky as we are. And if you go through life with that mindset, I feel like your floor is still pretty high. And so that's really important to me.
Kai Sato (33:18)
Can you touch a little bit on mentors in your life? Caddying in particular, I think, always breeds this mentor-mentee relationship, this natural symbiosis. It was huge in my life. grew up a lot. brought my father around. But what was that like for you? Who were some of these people? And in my opinion, they tend to build like a ladder and you don't know where they can go.
Jisner (33:39)
Yeah, it's funny. I, so, you know, my dad passed away when I was young and so I didn't necessarily have a lot of, you know, kind of male influence in my life close to me. you know, my uncles are awesome and, you know, nothing negative about anyone, but I still, in terms of like real career development, I generally learned from people that I just was kind of...
you know, I saw online or saw in the news or whatever and said, hey, like this is, this is someone that I just naturally identify with. And those two people for me, I mentioned, you know, one of them kind of peripherally, Bill Belichick, you know, somebody that I, I've learned.
more from probably than anyone in my life in terms of just how to run an organization, consistency of self, understanding how to win and how not to lose, all of those things. And then another person that lucky enough to call a friend, but certainly have learned a ton from as well as Dave Portnoy. And these are not people that, there are other people that are like, oh, wow, like, you know, why not?
you know, Jack Welch or someone else. like, hey, like these two people are, feel like the best at what they do and they are both extremely authentic. Like what you see is what you get with those guys. And that's how I try to run the company. I'm like, there are no secrets with me. You know, I'll, this is how I act. This is how I behave. This is what I value. This is what I don't value. Here's what we're going to do as a company. And, and look, you can either get on board with it or, or, or not, but, but we're going to have a team here of people that
that are authentic, that give a shit, that see the team is bigger than themselves, that are willing to make hard decisions, that are willing to talk about things that are real life, not sugar coat certain things around performance or expectations or how we feel about things. And so those two, I've gotten lucky enough to spend more and more time with them and continue to learn from them. But those are two individuals that I very much look up to.
Kai Sato (35:34)
think a lot of people, especially listeners of this show, would love to know Coach Belletak or love to know Dave Portnoy. How did you get to know them? How did you meet them?
Jisner (35:42)
you just take an interest in what they do and one thing leads to the next. Like I'd imagine, you know, caddies, there's, you know, caddies of all different clubs, but you know, you might not meet the greatest coach of all time, but you'll meet people who coach sports as a caddy for sure. You'll meet people who run businesses. Dave was a founder of a company in Boston. And so he was kind of always around, but, but you know, you just, you find people like that that are like, you know, Hey, you know, this is someone, I think the biggest thing is being able to personally identify with them. If you have.
If you have a mentor or someone you look up to that you're not a lot alike, I think that's a really, you can certainly learn certain things from them, but those aren't necessarily the people you want to emulate because then it just turns into like very superficial and it's not authentic to you. you know, being a guy from Boston who grew up during those years of the Patriots dynasty, who saw this unapologetic kind of founder of a company, you know,
you know, telling people how he actually felt and not worrying about if they liked them or not and whatever. Like those are the types of people that I identified with. so knowing that's very natural and organic to who I am, I always kind of sought out folks like that. but like I said, I mean, being a manager of a sports team at college, I learned a ton from coach Amaker there. I learned a ton from my, our high school basketball coach, Ted Martellini. Like you just find people that
They say, hey, I'm a little like this guy and the things he says really resonate with me. And then you just try to pick up what you can, but also maintain your own edge and figure out, you know, the things that make you a little different.
Kai Sato (37:15)
Yeah, no question. I think people will always ask me about the mentorship thing, especially some of my closest friends because of the lack of father thing. really sought it out. And caddying was it for me, especially my collegiate years and learning what a lawyer did or private equity or venture capital, any of that type of stuff. I just didn't know that stuff. then life advice of, don't have a girlfriend in college and things like that that are very, very important things for someone to sound off. But mentors are your friends first.
and you have to vibe as a person without, and so people will wanna like, will you mentor me? And it's like, well, let's just be friends first, right? Let's figure that step out first and go from there. like, I mean, I've had two huge quintessential mentors in my life. One unfortunately passed away, Mace Siegel, but the second is Patrick Whitesell. And I met him 20 years ago, caddying for him. And I had no idea that it was gonna be 10 years later, a guy I got to be friends with and play golf with. And now,
Jisner (37:43)
for sure.
That's right. I love that.
Mm-hmm.
Kai Sato (38:11)
I mean, I'm so blessed that any big decision in my life, I fortunately get to run by someone like him who's been there, done that, knows my values, knows what I'm all about, what I'm trying to do in my life. there's nothing for me like kind of more special just because it's not family, right? It's very different. And it's not just a friend. it's some weird amalgamation of everything because you don't choose your family and your friends are your friends in a different way. But to have someone
who genuinely cares about you and your career and is invested in where you're going. There's nothing more powerful, more wind at your sail, I think, in a lot of respects. And it's absolutely been a game changer for me and my life and my career.
Jisner (38:48)
No, I love what you said there. One of the things I unwound here at Axon a couple years ago is like this forced mentorship program where you get assigned a mentor. I think that's bullshit. It's like, here's a guy you have nothing in common with that's going to like show you how to do your job better. It's like, no, that just doesn't work in real life. And so I do think mentorship is something that comes up organically. Like you said, generally your friends first or there's some kind of common thread there. And then you just say, hey, I can learn. And then you start asking a bunch of
Kai Sato (38:56)
Doesn't fucking work. It's so dumb. It's so dumb.
Jisner (39:18)
questions. Like it's not like, like will you mentor me? It's like, hey, you know, what do you think about this situation? You know, how would you handle it? And like, that's how you learn.
Kai Sato (39:27)
I started to write a book a long time ago for guidance for boys growing up fatherless. Because as Obama says, it leaves a hole in a child's heart. And you listen to Jay-Z's lyrics and what it was like for him and Drake. Unless you went through it, don't really know it. But one of the chapters is about being interesting and being interested. You can ask a lot of questions, but then Josh Isner's got to go out and show up. He's got to go get things done. He's got to go get into Harvard. He's got to play on the team. He's got to be that manager. Be interesting.
Jisner (39:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kai Sato (39:55)
be somebody
that people want to take their most valuable asset time and spend it with you. And so, you know, for people who are listening to that type of stuff might be up against that, you know what we're talking about. Some word of the wise, like you keep building those bridges and you'll get over anything.
Jisner (39:58)
Thank
Yeah, I love it. And being interested isn't as simple as like, I'm gonna ask a bunch of questions. It's like, hey, you go off on your own and you learn on your own about these things. And then you ask more intelligent questions about them. know, a lot of people are like, you know, especially young people at times coming into, you know, office for the first time or whatever. They're like, oh, someone's just gonna show me what to do every day. And I'm, you know, I can just show up and be taught.
Exactly what to do. It's like no like the people who are really good are spending the time outside of work learning and in being resourceful and then you know the quality of their questions gets way better and then you know the person you know that you're asking for elbow this person's like showing a legitimate interest in this they're putting in time outside of work like those are the things that ultimately set you apart because look if if if if
you could just show up and accomplish what you wanted to do, there'd be a lot more successful people in this world and it's just not that easy. You gotta put in the work.
Kai Sato (41:06)
I think it's critical, especially what we were talking about this day and age, it's hard to get jobs. It was hard when we were coming out of school. I'd say even harder when you were coming out. I would say, look, you're either making something or selling something at any company, right? And if you're making something, I always want to know, what are you making outside of work? Right? Like you're in college, engineers build, builders build. Like there was a co-founder of a company that I loved so much that literally built a replica of Kitty Hawk.
Jisner (41:18)
Thank
Kai Sato (41:33)
It didn't even fit in his house. It was like streaming throughout of his home. And I'm like, right, there's an engineer. And by the way, if you're a sales person, sales is about relationships, right? It's about depth of understanding. So you come into it with a network and maybe you were born into a network and you just have that, but, or you go and you cultivate it and you have people who believe in you and trust in you. And so, I mean, you and I kind of came up in a day and age where you actually had to go try to find someone's email address and like,
Jisner (41:37)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kai Sato (42:00)
scrape and like, you know, even email Rick or whomever. And you know, now it's like, I applied to 200 jobs. Well, it's too easy to apply. How much have you personalized? How much do you follow up? By the way, how badly do you want this job? And so, you know, those types of things, I think are, we're about to see that in a big way. And you're going to separate, you know, the men from the boys and people are going to get a big leg up like I think you were able to do coming out at a very tough time.
Jisner (42:07)
Yeah.
That's right.
No doubt, it's all about showing initiative.
Kai Sato (42:27)
Before I
take up your entire day back into just some of the caddying thing, you got to join the club where you grew up caddying. You've joined some others. What was that experience like? What was it like also when you started to play golf more at more country clubs, having a looper out there? What was the experience? And like, did you have it in the back of your mind of, I've done that. And I kind of know how to navigate that.
Jisner (42:34)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, I, it's funny. I think if you like, you know, I think the best place in the world to play golf is Whisperock. You know, you got the hat on there. It's, it's great.
Kai Sato (42:58)
I don't disagree with you.
Jisner (43:00)
I'll never forget my interview there. Gregg, Gregg Tryhus is the owner of the club, somebody I have a ton of respect for. And as far as mentors go, you can learn a lot from that guy. one of the things, you know, I asked him in my, in my interview is I said like, Hey, you know, it must be pretty cool to have pro golfers up there. And, and, know, a lot of people, you know, have such a great brand for the club and blah, blah, blah. And he goes, Hey, they're just all people. Like there it's all people. know, regardless of what you do at the club, whether you're a pro golfer or, you know,
some member or caddy or somebody work in the grill room, whatever. It's just all people up there. And there's a great reminder. It's like when I go up there, I want my brand at the club to be.
not the most popular member amongst members, I want to be the most popular member amongst the staff and caddies. Like I think that's something that I value a lot is like, hey, when I'm out with the caddies, I want them talking shit to me. I want to be joking around with them. know, in the grill, I want to hear about what game people are betting on tonight. it's just like, you know, think that's very rewarding. And you know, when you're out there with a caddy,
you know, having been one and so forth, it's like, you know, I'll still rake my own bunkers. Like I don't need the caddy running around raking after me or like whatever. You know, it's just someone out there you can hang out with for three or four hours and have a bunch of laughs with and and that's what I enjoy. I hate folks who take caddies out and are like acting like they're playing in the US Open and barking at the caddy for a missed read and all that stuff. It's like, dude, get over yourself. Like
supposed to be fun, these people are working hard out here, working way harder day to day than a lot of us, and they deserve your respect and companionship, not a bunch of bullshit. So, that's kinda how I think about it.
Kai Sato (44:45)
Fantastic perspective and as you said from the outset any day Playing golf outside is a stolen day and we're very lucky to have it I'm gonna let you run but speaking of the rock and I do unequivocally It's the greatest place ever best culture best run that you see a benevolent dictatorship and how well someone can execute that vision It's it's an absolute gem in the golf world But are there any stories of loopers that you've come across anybody else that we should try to get in touch with highlight
We get to say, Josh sent ya.
Jisner (45:14)
Yeah.
Yeah. Look, the guy I admire a lot and I qualify this. I don't know him particularly well, but I've always admired his story is Kevin Strillman. He was a, he was a looper at the rock and, you know, turned into a tour winner, someone who had an exceptional career, played golf at Duke. You know, someone who put in the time, very, you know, big family guy. You know, he's, he's, I think a great role model for a lot of young players and
Somebody who put in the time caddying too and it's really cool to see guys like that that were one day, you know looping at the rock and the next day they're coming back with you know with you know, either Championships on the PGA Tour or great finishes and so forth and so, you know He's somebody that I always had a lot of respect for for sure
Kai Sato (46:00)
Dizzy man, I appreciate your time and more than anything, your friendship, your candor. Keep doing what you're doing, keep inspiring. You inspire me even though you're younger than me, you jackass.
Jisner (46:09)
Well the good news is I don't
look younger than you, so I'd rather be in your position to be honest.
Kai Sato (46:14)
I mean you're Jewish, I'm Asian, you can't compete. ⁓
Jisner (46:17)
That's right. That's right. Yup,
100%. I feel about 65 these days. So probably not the dynamic we're looking for here for a very healthy life, but we're working on it. So we'll see.
Kai Sato (46:33)
Quality of life is high. You're the man. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
Jisner (46:37)
Yeah, thanks, Kai, and congrats on all your success as well, and we'll tee it soon. Really enjoyed the time we get to spend together.
*This interview has been edited and condensed
